Disclaimer: Bad grammer ahead, watch out for dangling modifiers
Altie asked me to explain where my emuna and bitachon comes from and to explain some things which she seemed to think were novel idea (though I was/am under the assumption that this is the normal derech taken by torah in general and chassidus specifically, even if not expressed b'poel by "chassidim")
1. Altie said Life is not fair. I contended that it is. The truth is life is not fair... but the unfairness is in our favor. Even though Hashem punishes and rewards mida k'neged mida, there are times where Hashem does things to our benefit that we do not necessarily deserve. If Hashem were to act strictly with the midda of Din most of would probably be found chayiv. Doing an Aveira is throwing off the yolk of Heaven and rebelling against the king yet we don't just drop dead but Hashem continuously gives another chance and another change and another chance. The Rebbe explains about Ani V'dodi V'dodi Li that the reason the original Maamar (of the Alter Rebbe) says that the King is in the field, and accepts each person with a pleasant face is that even a Jew who is in "the desert" at the farthest distance from Hashem has the 13 Attributes of Mercy shined upon them in Elul and have access to the King to return in Teshuva.
Also I am sure you are familiar with the stories in the gemara of Rabbi Akiva and Nachum Ish Gamzu that illustrate that everything happens for a persons best.
If this doesn't suffice I recommend reading and reflecting upon what is discussed in The Chassidic Approach to Joy.
2. Why should you believe any of this?
A. Masoretic tradition has something that no other religious tradition has. That is a claim to an initial widespread divine revelation. According to the Torah Hashem revealed himself to more than 600,000 people simultaneously at Har Sinia. Every person transmitted to his sons that this happened. This was passed from one generation to the next. The end result is a large group of people who all have the same mesora. Something like this can not be artificial because to do so would involve convincing someone that their own father had a tradition (a person could reject this by rerifying if his father indeed had such a tradition) or that a large group of people had a certain tradition and that this whole group of people has disappeared/forgotten this tradition and that the person transmitting the tradition is the only link left in the chain. In this case that person would almost definitely take a large role in the religion yet we see no character in Jewish religion who comes with our long lost tradition and reminds us of it. At no point in the chain can anything drastic change or else one would be able to compare what he is being told with what every other Jew is receiving from the previous generation and what the previous generation itself received.
Widespread divine revelation has only been claimed to occur once and only by one religion.
If it were not a supernatural occurence, but rather some sort of trick by natural means then it would likely occur again and again as most naturally occuring things do.
For further treatment of this topic please read Permission to Recieve by Rabbi Kellerman.Permission to Believe is also very good.
B. The ability of the Jewish people, the smallest and most hated of nations to survive for thousands of years when every other society has tried to crush us in every way is a testament itself that Jews are L'maala M'teva and shma mina that there must be something protecting us.
C. The Rebbe. The Rebbe completely defied the limitations of reality time and time and time and time and time again. There are too many stories (I am sure you have heard many of them) from reliable and verifiable sources that illustrate that The Rebbe was a Ish Eloki with unnatural abilities.
If that very same person tells me he gets all of his koach from Hashem then who am I to argue?
I heard a mashel by a farbrengen. A whole shtetl of yidden gets locked up by a porush for failing to pay taxes and gets thrown in prison. They end up in prison for so long that they give birth to children who in turn have their own children who in turn have their own children. At some point there is no longer anyone in the prison who ever saw the outside world. They heard about it from their parents but its not real for them really. Then a new person gets admitted to the jail and he himself has seen what is outside and he comes and reveals the truthfulness to everyone and makes it real for them. This is what the Rebbe did for us, he made ruchnius a reality!
Please read: Sichos, Maamarim, and lots and lots of Rebbe stories.
This is a very superficial treatment of the subject (I don't think I could adequately write out all of my thoughts without producing a lengthy academic book that would be a pain to read [and there are already books that speak about these subjects anyway]) but it will have to suffice for the moment.
If you agree with these ideas and reflect deeply upon them then in a moment of clarity you will KNOW that Hashem exists and is only interested in doing what is best for you.
After that, whenever you have yetzer horas and doubts (most of us have them) you just need to remind yourself that intellectually you KNOW the truth and therefore there is no need to pay attention to any of the doubts which are aroused by your emotions.
I highly recommend reading the books I suggested.
Please feel free to respond to and question what I have said.
Shloime Daskal an Aaron Teitelbaum Production
3 minutes ago
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Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThe 1st thing I understood. Fairness is relative. It just depends which side of the scale you are on.
About the Torah being true- only if you believe in it. You tell me that G-d appeared in front of 600,000 people, so it says in the Torah. You tell be the Torah is true. That is a belief. Not fact.
The fact that Jews are still around, and practicing. There may be some truth to that. But again, that doesn't mean it is THE path.
I don't see what the Rebbe has to do with it.
And yes, if you BELIEVE and you KNOW then you won't doubt. But everyone has doubts. So that's not possible.
well written, feivel
ReplyDeletenice post, great info
ReplyDeleteIf we have doubts, we can seek info from people or in a book or online. We might have total belief but have a question, therefore we should keep seaching and learning so we grow
Altie, I don't see what the Rebbe doesn't have to do with it. A Rebbe is a revelation of Godliness. You would atleast agree that the Rebbe was an unnatural person, no?
ReplyDeleteThat enough proves that there are forces that go above and beyond nature. That is the first step towards Hashem.
Also, I was trying to explain how just a claim of massive divine revelation is proof enough that it happened because it is impossible to fake massive divine revelation and mesora. I was not saying that you need to take for granted that it happened. Maybe I did not express myself in the right way I wish I had more time to write at length but there are already scholarly works on the very same subject and therefore it would be pointless for me to reproduce them. As I said, please read Permission to Receive by Rabbi Kellerman.
"Fairness is relative. It just depends which side of the scale you are on."
ReplyDeleteThere is only one side of the scale - the side tipping in your favor.
No. In an argument, only one side can win. Let's say I win. I am happy, and you might say, that's not fair.
ReplyDeleteNow let's say you won the same argument. I might say, that's not fair.
Each person sees fairness differently. If G-d rewards us when we sin, that's not 'fair' either, but who would complain? And if He rightfully punishes us when we sin, that may be 'fair' but we won't be happy about it.
See what I mean?
I don't see what you are trying to prove with the Rebbe. And I'll just say like this: honestly, I believe in G-d. I have no problem with His existence. I'm just unsure about some other stuff. And thank you for trying to explain it, but at this point, I'm not sure if I'm ready to understand or accept anything.
I don't understand why you are equating the way the person feels with the fairness of the situation.
ReplyDeleteThe way you feel is dependant on you, fairness is dependant on Hashem.
Since Hashem only gives you what you deserve or what is good for you then really there is no reason for you to feel bad ever.
Fairness is justness of a situation not a feeling.
All I meant by bringing in The Rebbe was that a tzaddik with unnatural abilities clues us in that there is existance beyond nature. A Tzaddik connects us to Hashem and causes emuna to be b'pnimius.
Keep thinking and reflecting and eventually you will be ready to understand and accept things.
Maybe you should write about the stuff your not sure about, not necessarily in your blog - even to yourself. Writing forces a logical thought process and presentation and can help you understand the things you think about.
Think good and it will be good :-D
I'll think about it. Thanks for your efforts, it's appreciated.
ReplyDeleteFeivel.. I stumbled over here through a bunch of links and I HAVE to laugh at your comment... "Since Hashem only gives you what you deserve and what is good for you then really there is no reason for you to feel bad ever"
ReplyDeleteDo you actually believe that some otherworldy creature or being (that nobody can see), allowed the Holocaust to happen to his "chosen" people because they deserved it or it was good for them? Do have any rational argument to show this? Or do you just KNOW it? I mean, really? REALLY?
Please do some reading of forbidden books to get a grip on reality.
And dave- reading 'forbidden' books will help 'closed minded' people have a sudden new perspective on things? Like, really? You think someone's opinion of G-d will change just by reading another perspective on what really happened? By learning about evolution, by reading books that entirely refute Torah, and deny the existence of G-d- what will that help, really? G-d exists, G-d doesn't exist, does it really matter?
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what you believe- because really, I don't care enough to know- why bother yourself trying to co9nvince people to become educated before speaking up? Would you rather a smart educated person trying to convince you of the existence of G-d, or a stupid uneducated one trying to convince you that 'G-d' in fact does not exist?
What's wrong with 'live and let live'? Sometimes I think the world should revert to how it was hundreds of years ago. Everyone living on a farm, no electricity, minding their own business, the only gossip being whether or not your neighbor stole your cow, and everyone lived happily ever after.
Altie, I am not sure what your point is, if you actually meant to have one. Be that as it may, my point is that by reading books and actually understanding the concepts involved in say, evolution, one becomes better able to see the mistakes that religious people make when discussing such topics. For example, my mother. After I came out and told her I no longer believed in a god of any kind, i.e. Hashem, Zeus, or the Sun, she asked me if I really believe humans descended from monkeys! This is a common misconception that religious people have about this topic. So yes, a little reading on a topic will generally help someone see the error of something they were taught growing up.
ReplyDeleteNow, to your question. I don't really bother trying to convince people to become educated as the snarkiness of my comment above must demonstrate. I do wish religious people would be more open to testing their beliefs and researching a little bit more so they would come to realize the great delusion that they are living. But I know wishes and prayers don't come true or else there would be a bunch of ex-amputees running around enjoying life again.
And, yes. I do believe it matters whether or not god exists. I see no point in ritually mumbling to a make believe man-in-the-sky, wrapping my arms and head in leather, and praying for a return to the days of animal sacrifice if there is nothing or nobody listening. So I guess that is the point, why waste this fragile life doing things that are ultimately a complete waste of time? Why do these things that a book says to do when there is ever increasing evidence that the book is wrong? When the lack of evidence of what the book says becomes more glaring as time goes on? Why not just be a good person and treat other people with respect so society can function and not because a book tells you to.
What does live and let live have to do with reverting the world to hundreds of years ago and why do you think everyone lived happily ever after? The word was a dark, dark place for so many years and only recently has a part of the world come out of the realm of authoritative, top down government. I will again suggest some reading.
'I do wish religious people would be more open to testing their beliefs and researching a little bit more so they would come to realize the great delusion that they are living.'-
ReplyDeleteyou are of course insinuating that Religious Jews are 'wrong'. I guess if you think that you are 'right' than that is the only alternative.
'why waste this fragile life doing things that are ultimately a complete waste of time? '
Do you believe this is it, or do you think there is something after? An afterlife?
Thank you for your suggestions, and for implying that I am ignorant.
By expecting God to only do things which you can understand 100 percent of the time you are limiting his potential capabilities to the very limited scope of human comprehension.
ReplyDeleteI find it laughable that you attempted to make a non argument based around one thing I said without responding to any of my other comments.
The fact that God doesnt fulfill all of everyone's wishes is hardly proof of his non-existance. When a child asks his parents for something that isnt in his best interest the parent will refuse.
As far as the oft used Holocaust argument I direct you to please read last weeks torah portion (Haazinu) with the commentary of Rashi.
I would count the Holocaust as just one thing to add on the list of things which prove the chosenness of the Jews and the divinity of God.
Every single civilization has tried to kill us or erase our Torah and way of life and even though we are of the smallest people we have never ever been stamped out like the myriads of other peoples who have over even shorter periods of time completely lost their identities.
Also, if I wouldn't believe in God then why would I believe in morality at all? If the whole point of life is just for my own personal pleasure then why not rob and steal and murder when it suits me?